Oh God, It’s about you – More & More Contradictions – IV

Srivaishnavam  Parambaryam, Traditions &  The Culture that stands Class apart from othersEssence of Srivaishnavam Practices -Religion Articles – Who is True God?

Srivaishnavam

This discussion is continuation of previous page..

Reproduced below is the text I received in my Email from one Br. Mark, in continuation on the discussion on “Who is True God”.  As usual, without editing the text or contents, I reproduce it as I got from Br. Mark; now it is for the readers to join the discussion and judge the inner meaning and facts about life and God! – TRS Iyengar

Dear TRS Iyengar 

Thank you for your website and posting the Judeo-Christian (Mr. D’Costa) vs. Vedas “debate”  from various sides.   I am sending you this information because, as you know, the Rg Veda teaches  “many rivers one source” and the seekers of the Truth must agree that the Truth is One.

I have many own personal realization regarding Jesus’ identity.   The True Jesus cannot be understood unless meditating on His Divine Lila.   One must chant the Holy Name while meditating on Jesus Lila and only then will His form be revealed.  The idea of chanting the Holy Name(s) as the vehicle to realize the form of the Lord is part and parcel of Vaisnava Theology.  (Nama- Rupa)  

A realization of Jesus’ form as Jesus on the Cross seen while chanting Om Namo Shivaya:   

“Jesus appeared youthful, boy like, having a blue body  pierced and revealing His red Heart torn open.  His head was bowed having countless effulgent rays of compassion radiating from His face.   His mood was that of Prahlada .. a little boy in the hands of His torturers that were His very own dearest relationsHis sorrow and anguish was the lamentation of a child who was being killed by relatives that forgot their relationship to Him.  As if a father, brother, mother was killing their child, yet, having forgotten that He is their very own. His sorrow saying “Do you not see how I love you? … no please do not do this .. can you not recognize I am your very own?”    All throughout I realized that this was the very mood of Prahlada when he was kidnapped away from His family and subject to torturers.  His mood was not that of “Superboy” but that of a little kid not understanding what was happening to Him, yet having childlike faith in His Father in any situation!  Then the form of Jesus on the Cross transformed into Ananta Sesha Naga.   The Crucifixion being Ananta Sesha Naga Himself.    His eyes were fixed, resolute fiery yet compassionate.  The eyes expressed the resoluteness for fulfilling and finishing His sacrifice for all the living entities for all the worlds. “

Your servant in Christ,

Br. Mark

ps – please read Nityananda Trayodasi Offering revealing Jesus as Nitai Balarama

Nityananda Trayodasi Offering

The Gaudiya Vaishnava Theology of Sri Nitai-Balarama as the Second Person of the Godhead, the Origin of Incarnation, the Original Spiritual Master, the Savior of all Worlds, and the Second Person of the Catholic Godhead 

Part 1

HARE KRISHNA !  SRI SRI GURU AND GAURANGA KI JAYA ! 

“Let me offer my obeisances to Lord Nityananda. the Supreme Personality of Godhead, whose opulence is wonderful and unlimited.  By His will, even a fool can understand His identity.”  (Sri Chaitanya-Charitamrita, Adi-Lila, Chapter 5, Text 1) 

The following quotations are from Sri Chaitanya-Charitamrita by Krishnadasa Kaviraja Goswami, translated into English, with elaborate purports given by His Divine Grace  A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.   My comments are in UPPER CASE and brackets [ ]. 

Introduction to Adi-Lila, Chapter 5, The Glories of Lord Nityananda Balarama 

before Text One: 

“The Personality of Godhead known as Sri Balarama in Krishnaloka is the original Sankarshana (attracting Deity), and from this Sankarshana expands another Sankarshana , called Maha-Sankarshana, who resides in one of the Vaikuntha planets.  By His internal potency, Maha-Sankarshana maintains the transcendental existence of all the planets in the spiritual sky, where all the living beings are eternally liberated souls.” 

THE HOLY NAME OF SANKARSHANA IS A COMPOUND OF SAM ( SMA IN EGYPTIAN, SYN OR SYM IN GREEK AND COM IN LATIN) AND KARSHANA.  KARSHANA IS A VARIANT FORM OF THE NAME KRISHNA, WHICH IS WHY SRILA PRABHUPADA CALLS HIM THE ORIGINAL “ATTRACTING DEITY”.   KRISHNA / KARSHANA IS THE CHARISMA OR ALL-ATTRACTING LOVEABLE AND LOVING GOD OF ALL SPIRITUAL AND MATERIAL WORLDS.  FROM THE VERY BEGINNING WE MUST UNDERSTAND THAT KRISHNA AND BALARAMA ARE TWO PERSONS OF THE SAME GODHEAD.  SRI BALADEVA IS SAM-KARSHANA.  HE IS THE ‘ALSO KRISHNA’. HE IS ‘AND’ KRISHNA, ‘WITH’ KRISHNA AND ‘IS’ KRISHNA TOO.  SRI KRISHNA AND SAM-KARSHANA ARE BOTH THE SAME GOD.  THEY ARE NOT TWO GODS, BUT ARE TWO CO-ETERNAL PERSONS OF THE SAME GODHEAD, EQUAL IN DIVINITY AND BEAUTY, OPULENCE, OMNISCIENCE, OMNIPRESENCE AND OMNIPOTENCE IN EVERY WAY.   THEY ARE BOTH THE SAME  EKA / ECHAD GOD, BUT ONE IS THE LORD WHO IS SERVED AND THE OTHER IS THE SERVITOR LORD.  ONE (SRI KRISHNA) IS THE ORIGIN AND THE OTHER (SANKARSANA) IS HIS SECOND PERSON. 

“On those planets, the second quadruple manifestation is present.” 

THE CHATUR-VYUHA HAS PARALLELS IN PURE LAND BUDDHISM,  EGYPTIAN, JEWISH AND GREEK EMANATIONAL MYSTICISM. 

“In the Causal Ocean is Maha-Vishnu, the original Purusha expansion from Sankarshana.   This Maha-Vishnu places His glance over the material energy, and by a reflection of His transcendental body He amalgamates Himself within the material elements. ” 

THIS GLANCE IN SOME TRADITIONS IS ASSOCIATED WITH SADA SHIVA AS SHAMBHU AND THE FATHER OF THE ENTIRE COSMIC MANIFESTATION.   HE IS ASSOCIATED WITH THE SPIRITUAL IMPREGNATION OF SOULS INTO MATTER, AND IS THE LORD AND LOVER OF DURGA, THE MATERIAL NATURE AND MOTHER OF ALL UNIVERSES. 

“Maha-Vishnu again enters the universe as the reservoir of all living entities, Garbhodakashayi Vishnu.  From Garbhodakashayi Vishnu expands Kshirodakashayi Vishnu, the Supersoul of every living entity.” 

THESE ARE “VISHNOS TU TRINI RUPANI,” THE THREE FORMS OF VISHNU.  ONE WHO REALIZES THESE THREE FORMS OF VISHNU ACHEIVES MOKSHA, LIBERATION.  

THESE THREE FORMS OF VISHNU ARE NOT ANALOGOUS TO THE PROTO-CATHOLIC TRINITY, IN WHICH  BOTH MAHA-VISHNU AND GARBHODAKASAYI VISHNU ARE INCLUDED (AS IN PURE LAND BUDDHISM’S TRI KAYA) WITH THE INTERMEDIATE FORMS OF THE SECOND PERSON OF THE GODHEAD.   THE ACTUAL VAISHNAVA-CATHOLIC TRINITARIAN PARALLEL IS: 

1. IN THE PROTO-CATHOLIC THEOLOGY THE FIRST PERSON IS BHAGAVAN SRI KRISHNA, HARI (HEBREW ELI, EGYPTIAN HERU).  

2. THE SECOND PERSON IS BALU-YAHU (BALADEVA OR VASUDEVA)  WHO INCLUDES THE ‘MAHA VISHNU’ FORM OF THE LORD.  HE RESTS ON  THE PRIMORDIAL MAYIM OR WATERS OF CHAOS , OR THE CAUSAL OCEAN (SPIRIT OF GOD ON THE HEBREW ‘MAYIM’ WATERS OF GENESIS).  IN EGYPT AND AT DELPHI, HELIOS PHANES (BRAHMA) WAS WORSHIPED IN ASSOCIATION WITH THE ‘AXIS MUNDI’ OMPHALOS OR NAVEL OF THE UNIVERSE.  THIS CLEARLY IDENTIFIES A CONNECTION BETWEEN DELPHIC HELIOS AND GARBHODAKASHAYI VISHNU.  IN ADDITION, THE GREEK WORD DELPHA AND SANSKRIT WORD GARBHA ARE COGNATE.  THUS BOTH THE MAHA AND GARBHA FORMS OF VISHNU WERE INCLUDED IN THE WESTERN AND BUDDHIST INTERMEDIATE OR MEDIATING SECOND PERSONS OF THE TRINITY (FROM BALADEVA).  

3. THE THIRD ALL-PERVASIVE FORM OF THE LORD IN THE PROTO-CATHOLIC TRADITION IS THE HOLY SPIRIT OR PARAMATMA.  THUS ELI-YAHU WAS WORSHIPED AS ATMAN / ATUM IN NORTH EGYPT, ATEN IN SOUTH EGYPT AND AS ADON-YAHU AMONG THE SEMITIES.  IN GREECE, HIS ALL-PERVASIVE FORM WAS ASSOCIATED WITH THE DOCTRINES OF ATOMOS (THE INDIVIDUAL , NOT AN INDIVISIBLE IMPERSONAL THING), ONTOS (BEING), AND AUTOS, THE SELF. 

“Garbhodakashayi Vishnu also has His own Vaikuntha planet in every universe, where He lives as the Supersoul or supreme controller of the universe.” 

AS THE PARAMATMA OR HOLY SPIRIT RESIDES IN THE HEART OF ALL FORMS / CREATURES, GARBHODAKASHAYI VISHNU IS THE LORD RESIDING WITHIN THE HEART OF EVERY UNIVERSAL BODY / COSMIC MANIFESTATION. 

“Garbhodakashayi Vishnu reclines in the midst of the watery portion of the universe and generates the first living creature of the universe, Brahma.” 

IN PROTO-CATHOLIC HELIOPOLITAN MONOTHEISM THIS IS THE HELIOS PHANES OR THEOPHANY FORM OF HELIOS KOUROS (HORUS), OR OF HIS ALTER-FORM, BALU-YAHU, DIONYSOS OR ASAR (OSIRIS).   HE APPEARS WITH FOUR ARMS AND HEADS, SEATED ON THE COSMIC LOTUS ARISING FROM NHRYN (NARAYANA OR NILUS) AT THE BEGINNING OF THE UNIVERSE.  IN MEMPHITE HELIOPOLITAN THEOLOGY HE SPEAKS CREATION INTO EXISTENCE. 

“The imaginary universal form is a partial manifestation of Garbhodakashayi Vishnu.” 

SRILA PRABHUPADA PREFERRED TO STRESS THE IDEA THAT THE VISHVARUPA OR VISHVARATA UNIVERSAL FORM OF PURUSHA WAS ‘IMAGINARY’.   THIS EMPHASIS IN OUR LINEAGE IS RELATED TO TWO THEOLOGICAL CONTROVERSIES. THE FIRST IS THE ISSUE OF WHETHER THE LORD AS PURUSHA AVATARA ASSUMES A ‘MATERIAL’ BODY IN ‘BECOMING’ THE COSMIC MANIFESTATION.  THIS PROBLEM IS AT THE CRUX (LITERALLY) OF MANY CONTROVERSIES BETWEEN THE MAYAVADI IMPERSONALISTS AND THE VARIOUS SCHOOLS OF VAISHNAVA AND SHAIVITE THOUGHT.  IN THE WEST THIS SAME ISSUE IS AT THE CORE OF THE GNOSTIC REJECTION OF THE DOCTRINE OF REAL INCARNATION, THE WORSHIP OF GOD THROUGH ICONS, AND IN THE BLESSED SACRAMENT / EUCHARIST.  MAYAVADI HINDU, MUSLIM, GNOSTIC AND PROTESTANT ICONOCLASM AND REJECTION OF THE DOCTRINES OF SRI MURTI AND GOD’S ‘REAL PRESENCE’ IN THE EUCHARIST / PRASADAM ARE RELATED TO THIS CENTRAL QUESTION OF THE PURUSHA AVATARA.    IF THE UNIVERSE IS UNREAL / ILLUSORY OR EVIL, THEN HOW CAN THE PURUSHA HAVE A UNIVERSAL FORM ? 

THE SECOND CONTROVERSY IS ABOUT HOW THE INTERPRETATION OF THE VISHVARUPA OR PURUSHA RESULTS IN THE VEDIC SACRIFICIAL SYSTEM.   BECAUSE THE RAJASIC AND TAMASIC INTERPRETATIONS OF PURUSHA AVATARA RESULTED IN ANIMAL AND HUMAN SACRIFICE, THE SATTVIC LINEAGES OF VAISHNAVISM PREFERRED TO STRESS THE ESOTERIC SPIRITUAL, SUBTLE, OR ‘IMAGINARY’ FORM OF THE COSMIC PURUSHA RATHER THAN THE ACTUAL ‘INCARNATION’ UNDERSTANDING OF HIS MACRO-COSMIC BODY.   THUS THE MACRO-COSMIC MAN / PURUSHA FORM OF GOD WAS OFFERABLE IN SACRIFICE (SEE PURUSHA-SUKTA IN THE RIG VEDA) IN PLANT FORM RATHER THAN IN BLOODY ANIMAL OR HUMAN SACRIFICES.    SO, TO AVOID MAYAVADI AND OTHER HERESIES, AND BECAUSE OF THE SATTVIC ASCETIC AHIMSA FORMS OF SACRIFICE IN OUR LINEAGE, THE UNIVERSAL FORM OF THE LORD AS AN ACTUAL INCARNATION IS DE-EMPHASIZED.


“In the Svetadvipas within every universe is a Shesha form of Godhead who serves Vishnu by assuming the form of His umbrella, slippers, couch, pillows, garments, residence, sacred thread, throne and so on.” 

LORD BALADEVA AS KRISHNA’S EFFULGENCE, NAME, FORMS FOR PASTIMES, AND PARAPHERNALIA IS A VERY IMPORTANT DOCTRINE.  HIS ASANAS, VAHANAS, ASTRAS, CROWNS AND OTHER ‘SYMBOLIC’ ATTRIBUTES CAN BE IDENTIFIED IN JUDAISM, EGYPTIAN AND GREEK HELIOPOLITAN PROTO-CATHOLIC MONOTHEISM.  MANY OF THESE HAVE CONTINUED INTO CATHOLICISM.  I HAVE STUDIED THESE IN DEPTH, FOR OVER 30 YEARS

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    TRS Iyengar

    Born on Makara Uthiradam star, native of Mukkur and brought up in Ladavaram village near Arcot and now well settled in Mumbai for over five decades. Presently, at 70, trying to run this website without any commercial expectations or profit motive, just for the sake of our future generations to understand about Sanatana Dharma & Srivaishnavam sampradayam.Within my limited knowledge that I put it here, what I learnt from the world.